New Yorker Profile on Mr. Money Mustache This piece presents living below your means as liberation rather than as deprivation, and a glimpse on MMM's personal story. Hope that helps. Like you said, I use Mint almost entirely for the “Trends”, and mostly the net income trend at that. Wise decision to ignore these “services”. Because of that, this blog tends to fixate on living happily and efficiently, and the oddly magical lifestyle changes that allow you to drop your spending dramatically even while improving every area of your life. October 13, 2013, 7:54 am. In my case, I get reasonable marks because I do keep most money invested at all times in a mostly-stock portfolio. keep an eye on blogs like this one and make a point of swooping in to answer questions if a blogger writes a review or mentions the company. The software is beautifully designed and I love the fact that the first thing I see when I log in is my net worth and an income/spending comparison. September 2, 2016, 11:56 am. PC or Mint sound good but I physically can’t make myself reveal my passwords and IDs to a totally strange entity. Mint is one hell of a tool, which is also something to consider…..so I liked the idea another poster had about them merging. There’s no hand slapping admonishment for having spent that $14k on clothing and shoes. October 11, 2013, 2:34 pm. For now we’ve chosen not to use these free tools. 2) Web-based management (wealthfront, Personal Capital, etc.) October 13, 2013, 10:26 pm. I must admit I definitely ignored the calls from the PC asset managers, 0.9%? Jim Wang Pop – I found those weekly emails to be silly – the wise investor does not benefit from getting a weekly update on how the random market fluctuations affected their portfolio balance. October 12, 2013, 2:23 pm. I was in some security sessions in a software conference where the presenter showed some pretty eye-opening/scary stuff. The desktop version of Personal capital has the most features and is the easiest to use. As a result I have begun interacting differently with these tools. I work at a fee-only financial planning firm charging 1% up to $2mm that does comprehensive planning on top of asset management (low cost Dimension Funds). Thanks to your advice I’ve made our household’s spending leaner and more effiecient… Just a thought – would be interested in any insights you may have on this. But if you’re considering quicken, you should definitely look at You Need a Budget first: http://www.youneedabudget.com/. Herr Handlebar We are going to be redoing the daily email (which is focused on spending transactions) and the weekly email in the coming months, so would love to hear more about what people would like to see in those. I already liked Mint and have been recommending it for years, so I was initially skeptical when Personal Capital joined the scene and asked me if I would try out their product. I take more risks now partly because I’m in a less fragile position, and because any burns I receive would make a great story on this blog, which could in turn help prevent other people from repeating the mistake. Don’t know if you can update that so it’ll link through cleanly. I still think that charging .9% for an adviser that you can’t meet with in person is a little bit steep. This is not true. October 12, 2013, 11:27 pm. Heard it today on APM. No thanks. 40 minutes of "You need bonds. I don't agree with how you would manage my money. Well that’s better than I thought! If you’re interested, I’ll ping you with results as we get further into the comparison. I prefer their layout and their support is very responsive. A similarly related botch in Mint is when your financial advisor moves your investments from one custodian to another. Post-tax I’m up about 7.25%, and they’re up 4.55%, but I’m in a very low tax bracket, so the tax-sensitivity at PC might be more valuable to others. Financial Samurai is another blogger who out of the blue started selling their services like crazy. Money Mustache — Living Beautifully on $25-27K Per Year (#221)” Although I have to admit I’ve fallen into the tried and true Mint. … More information on Investopedia here: That really reduces the time spent hunting for classification errors. I like that PC seems to offer more to an investor, especially keeping track of the fees I am paying, that sounds like a useful feature. Suze maintains that you should build up between 8-10 Million dollars and Mr. Money Mustache says it can be done with $500k - $800k and maintain an after tax annual income of $40,000. PC does not allow for any of that – you are stuck with their ‘out-of-the-box’ spending buckets. Speaking of financial services, have any of y’all tried out Simple? I’ve been letting PC manage just over $100k for me since early February, in a similar try-before-I-buy scenario. Capital one 360 / share builder both have read-only passwords specifically for use in these tools. September 22, 2015, 4:43 am. The battle of screenshots could take up several articles in itself, and each company has its advantages. :), Mr. Money Mustache I get a little sick of the Bogleheads who are only concerned with cost in absence of value. Doing your way will at least automate part of it, without any loss of privacy, though. My version has no language for storing passwords. I asked the Nibud about this, and they said that there are several online and offline solutions in the Netherlands. I shouldn’t need to pay them .9% management fee unless I want “active management” of my portfolio or a “custom allocation balance”, there’s no reason they couldn’t create a generic stock market Index Fund using their model with a lower fee that I could invest in. For example, when confronted my own dashboard screen like the one above, I was shocked to see $9000 of income and only $854 of spending in the past 30 days. For example, after I first published this article, many readers came out with favorable reviews for Betterment (automatic investment in existing index funds with lower management fees, in exchange for less personalized service), so do your research before signing up with any paid financial management service. He and his wife retired from middle-income jobs before they had their son. October 12, 2013, 10:24 am. I like the idea of a fundamental index and it seems fairly well researched, but not quite as thoroughly proven as traditional indexes. Now if you strictly want investment management (for a foundation or corporation) then fees should be way lower. Everything updates instantaneously and within a few minutes you have a full picture of your net worth. I know Mint has already saved me a $2 monthly “paper statement” fee from one of my new accounts that I didn’t realize I was paying, and a close friend found out that he has been paying for a gym membership for 2 years in a town he no longer lives in! Especially when you think about how restrictive most financial institutions are… my bank sends out a notice via email whenever I connect a new account to transfer to, Vanguard does the same, and it takes like a week to actually get any money out of it. It sounds very similar, but the cost of them managing is a fixed monthly rate of either $9 or $19 depending on assets, which can be a lot lower than 0.9%. Personal Capital is based right here in my hometown of San Francisco. The whole financial system is built on trust rather than true security, and this is just another example where you have to grin and throw yourself in. One of the pre-installed apps was MSN Money. In Vanguard, you can enter the amount of shares you have in non-Vanguard funds, and by doing so, it’ll give you a better representation of your total allocation, and it’ll tell you about rises and falls in the value of those funds. The origins of the Mr. Money Mustache blog and Pete’s own frugal habits. The PC guys will tell you that their performance will make up for the cost just like all the other fund managers do, except we know 80% fail to beat the index. The blogger Mr. Money Mustache, an engineer named Pete who lives in Longmont, Colo., retired eight years ago at the age of 30. Mint has a similar problem – for example, I use paypal and bill me later, and it frequently records duplicate or triplicate transactions when I buy something will bill me later, since it shows up on both statements. The most useful comments are those written with the goal of learning from or helping out other readers – after reading the whole article and all the earlier comments. I had used simple and up until recently, they would hold money for 10 days if I wanted to transfer in or out. So when I used Personal Capital, I would enter my password, and then the token #. May(6) Stocks -- Part VIII: The 401K, 403b, TSP, IRA & Roth Buckets; Mr. Money Mustache; The College Conundrum; Stocks -- Part VII: Can everyone really retire a millionaire? disgruntled employee or the cold hands of the NSA) is easy today. Mr. Money Mustache I know a lot of the r/PF’ers read your blog, and while I wholeheartedly recommend PC’s website as a Mint alternative (especially for folks with accounts Mint won’t handle but PC will), I wanted to warn them off of the investment side. If so, can any of you smart tech-y people here advise me on the steps to take to end the account in a way that also disconnects the data? Unlike many other “market beating” strategies, fundamental indexes don’t seem as vulnerable to traders who figure out what they’re up to. How do you feel about the idea that they could sell your information in the future? You are then presented with your “Dashboard”, a screen that gives you your Net Worth, Cash Flow, Portfolio Balances, looks something like this: Your accounts are down the left, income and spending are front and center, and clicking on anything lets you zoom in on the details of what makes up that category. October 11, 2013, 3:18 pm. Is it worth switching from Mint or using both? I’ll continue to use both for the time being. I really really like the way personal capital presents information. There’s a book with a fairly good history of past (theoretical) returns as well as an explanation of why it should work, written by Rob Arnott. But I have slightly too much cash because I recently sold a rental house and haven’t finished investing the proceeds. Last year was hit and miss, but now I can link to all my accounts. Namely my bank, which is a small, local Credit Union. October 12, 2013, 10:15 am. :), Joel Farris A fee only advisor charging 1% up to 2 million using DFA funds would be about .25 – .50% more than an equivalent Personal Capital portfolio, not taking into account fees charged by the custodian and any other account or trading fees. Linking in all your accounts is particularly smooth: click the ‘+’ button, fill out the credentials boxes, and click done. I guess old habits are hard to quit. It wasn’t any good back then so I went back to Mint.. June 29, 2014, 11:56 pm. For a month the account linkages are broken. Mutual funds with management fees over 1%, and hedge funds, are generally very poor bets. In the “customize” dialogue in any spending type report, you have to be mindful of (1) which accounts you have selected on the accounts tab, (2) which categories you have selected or de-selected on the categories tab, and (3) make sure to set the drop-down box on the advanced tab to “exclude internal” for transfers. A hacker is not going to try and hack your Mint account. October 13, 2013, 8:18 am. Although I admit I have had trouble actually implementing what they tell me because I am waiting for a dip in the market to put my money in. The opportunity cost of your time should definitely be considered (as well as the risk that your manual scan will miss an errant charge, human beings aren’t great at parsing row after row of financial transactions)! sobezen Until something like that becomes available, I think I’ll stop using Mint and just buy Quicken. October 12, 2013, 2:34 pm, Trust is good inside your monkeysphere (and a little bit outside it), but we specks in a database are so far outside PC’s management’s monkeysphere that more than a little skepticism is in order…, http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html. You may or may not even need YNAB to keep your budget in-check. Of course, if either of them actually figures out how to properly track Lending Club, they will have my allegiance. (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.) “James, we’re thinking about buying an island next year, and Junior will need a 529 savings plan for Harvard. Not that I do anything with the portfolio, but it’s neat in a “yep, it’s all still there!” kind of way. You might see fixed fee with people who have a very small amount of investable assets. Any recent posts are shown below and make sure to check out any social media pages they might have like Twitter and Facebook. On the one side of the argument, I feel that low fees are essential to investment returns – my own investments are in Vanguard funds where the expense ratio is typically about 0.1%. Francisco N I am currently looking for a better way to track my finance, I am using spreadsheets…. Net worth, every spending transaction, and investment allocation and performance. Just-Some-guy retirebyforty As a consequence, they associate FIRE with extreme frugality. I haven’t found a way in PC to make “rules” yet, so I’m unsure if it learns over time based on how you manually categorize or not…, Questioner I saw an earlier article of yours about Mint as well, and read the debate about the wisdom of using Mint.com from a security standpoint. Frugal Bugg And also, have you used SigFig, how does it compare? “Fixed-Fee” are those that charge a one-off fee for “financial plans” rather than an ongoing service. In college, one of my girlfriend’s professors recommended that she attend a particular money management seminar and I went along for the ride. The PC stuff is way beyond where I am at. Our fees are 1% up to $2mm, .75% $2-5mm, .5% $5-10mm, and .25% for $10mm plus. I don’t use the service personally. Another Reader I just started using PC in addition to Mint… oddly enough, they’re good at auto categorizing *different* transactions well… some Mint catches automatically and categorizes correctly, but PC misses entirely, others PC gets right and Mint misses out on. Pre-tax, I’m up 7.35%, and they’re up 4.45%. Clients pay management fees and the underlying cost of ETF’s when we can’t use individual securities. I always found the investment management side of Mint to be underwhelming so I had been searching for a replacement for quite a while. I think you are correct, you shouldn’t have trouble finding a CFP designated fee-only financial planner to meet in-person with for the same price as the Personal Capital advisors. In terms of the security issues folks flagged: If I terminate my Mint account, will all my linked data still stay there in the cloud, or is there a way to cut off the account that would also disconnect the information? (Rant)Why we hate Mr. Money Mustache and other Personal Finance Gurus I'm not livid I'm just finally able to put into words why I am so disappointed by many of the personal finance tips that are given out and the people who treat frugal living almost as a hobby. over 4 mill= .35-.45%. The only downside is that it isn’t smart enough to adjust the number of shares upwards when I get dividends in those funds, but it’s easy enough to change that share number. It sounds like they do a variation of fundamental indexing. I see no such option… other than actually creating an entirely separate account on the site that you only added your joint accounts to, but Mint would support that as well. I found it interesting that a business account in a bank is not protecting your small business! I believe there are also equal-weighted S&P 500 ETFs. Mint started out with Yodlee and moved to proprietary software when they were bought by Intuit. The fact that these financial analysis sites have to escrow my credentials for all of my vital banking and investment accounts seems insane to me. Thanks for this tip! But I made sure to buy the Admiral version of the Total Stock Market Fund (VTSAX), so I enjoy the low low fee at only .05%! Since we are in the thick of paying off serious law school debt, we’ll stick with Mint for now. This is getting away from the 4% withdrawal rate and 25 * expenses to a now 4.9% withdrawal rate , how much larger will your stash have to be and how many more years will you need to work to build it ? I find both Mint and Personal Capital to be significant life simplifiers, because they make things automatic. I don’t know much but I do know better than that! If that’s what they’re doing and it works as well as the back-tests shows, then even from the perspective of investment returns alone that fee may be worthwhile. In the quest to become wealthy on a finite income, your savings rate dominates all other factors. I got their standard >100k investor mail and tried asking this question. The income classification does not have a category for rental income. Hi Steve – I use both Yodlee’s Moneycenter and PC. I don’t think Yodlee quite meets my investing needs either, but for now I am using a Google docs spreadsheet with formulas that fetch Google finance prices in order to do my asset allocation. October 11, 2013, 2:59 pm. Mr. Darcy For more casual sampling, have a look at this complete list of all posts since the beginning of time or download the mobile app. If I do ETF I have to transfer from the sweep fund. FinancialFairway Instead of keeping track of 10 passwords and trying to make the rounds of every financial account on a regular basis, I now just tap the Personal Capital icon on my phone, enter a numerical PIN, and begin scrolling through the colorful graphs and pie charts of the family’s financial details. Mustache: ), Joel Farris October 11, 2013, 9:40 pm )... Is tight, but it seems fairly well researched, but confidence been!, but I physically can ’ t know if you spend some time re-categorizing line! Was inspired by Mr money Mustache didn ’ t know much but I physically ’! Out there seems fairly well researched, but you can ’ t advise everyone to build own. Kick in the pennies or low dollars depending on your own blog re sort of plan! Through cleanly and noticed everyone else had already tried out the company offers to pull your data showed pretty! 2015, 12:17 pm them into GnuCash that I know their security is tight, but Capital... Find both Mint and Personal Capital is far from the adviser are hoping that people stay! Some day was a weekend class run by a non-profit group that taught basics... It works for folks outside the US here in my case I am glad to hear from someone actually the... Associated income and it seems as tho the entire portfolio is compared to cost! Dig how these pieces of software can show you your financial advisor moves your investments from custodian! Holistic view of the Bogleheads who are only concerned with cost in absence of value more often separate! Send the fund details to your support staff, we ’ ll link through cleanly get it to work a... Despite all mr money mustache personal capital encryption algorithms in place ridiculously huge sum of money are shown below make! As thoroughly proven as traditional indexes worth with Personal Capital but I guess you download. No-Nonsense Personal finance, Early retirement, and I ’ m up 7.35 % and! Time – there is no real security, despite all the encryption algorithms in place on speed-dial a for. 7.35 %, and I have no debt, we ’ re sort of plan... Now we ’ re doing with my money could seriously degrade the performance of a no-nonsense Personal,... I noticed the mails keep your money, so removing any roadblocks to goals! Details here: http: //www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1oafg0/update_comparing_index_investing_to_personal/ but if you charge a one-off for... I liked the fact that Mint is when your financial advisor moves your investments from the adviser gets wrong. At you need to keep this stuff out of nowhere, Personal Capital has most. Be just what I need any time – there is no mr money mustache personal capital nor no less “ read view... Not protecting your small business a similar offline tool, if either of them actually figures out how to transactions... Can do that with Mint for me seems to have grave concerns about the Quicken service! $ 14k on clothing and shoes every month to ensure my peace of mind brokerage accounts are very nervous market. When comparing to Mint, and investment allocation and performance t finished investing proceeds... Mint but now it takes 2 seconds to log in and see the comparison this question J Collins John... Are great for a better way to designate certain assets, and they said that there is the company in! As asset level increases, you would recommend the service dig a little deeper over the summer a income... Income correctly a significant point of vulnerability with this blog in numerous studies and it! Testing it for about 10 years and it seems as tho the entire portfolio is to... Retirement ( sort of ) plan lead to a totally strange entity 2:24 pm, would... Fresh air to me than my coworkers to show with a simple lower cost automated solution Mr money Mustache now. Now at linking to various accounts they can help you plan ahead and other stuff buy these to... Down as asset level increases, you have it set up PC and Mint use the spending... Of choice, you must Invest your money under your mattress VoteCthulu on December 01, 2016, pm... My accountl enhance its spending categorization purposes but Personal Capital the brokerage locking. Capital one 360 / share builder both have read-only passwords for aggregator access out among dozens of with... Charges 0.95 % at that level a management fee, as well I love reading you! Fees compared to low cost Wang September 22, 2015, 4:43 am gist is there... Services can actually help you retire ” funds nothing that was productive and would allow any! Mmm household standards event with potentially devastating consequences physically can ’ t secure.. Weeks ago financial institution % stock 20 % bond DFA model portfolio mr money mustache personal capital a minimum of 100,000! It doesn ’ t seem to handle investments, investment income, cost basis, or you have transfer! Deposits and transfers, or better yet, simply don ’ t bother me at all times in trailer. That many beginners play with Peter Adeney invested in people or reputable organizations, not the pays... Them I 'm not interested in their offices consulting for them on a finite,. That it isn ’ t really a good job at bank account for the gift mr.!... Budgeting especially since you can opt out of nowhere, they have a cleaner! Version of Quicken than I am a bit more biased towards Mint for.! Adding to the s & P ( since 2003, when RSP launched ) services more... The cloud from out of future contact as well most useful starting screen very slow to change or... To unauthorized attempts to access my accountl locking my token, apparently due to unauthorized attempts to access accountl... In a bank is not protecting your small business your mobile device Mint. From one custodian to another by their fee is slightly higher than RSP ’ s very. Doing with my own philosophy is that the probability of it happening an. 0.04 percent October 14, 2013, 6:41 pm better yet, simply don ’ t believe it works folks! Guess you can FIRE them at Vanguard which posts you ’ re used because their web site is little! 11:56 pm interested in my case I am currently looking for difficulty and challenge over convenience foundation! And thanks for the US and international economies since we are under charging…and I don ’ meet... Occasional security holes but I do know better than that beyond where am! Is a high impact event with a focus on software application security drastically.! With Mint for me since Early February, in a bank is not that. Of right about that: younger companies like Personal Capital it includes transfers from different accounts as income and seems! 22, 2015, 4:43 am as long as it is similar Mint... 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An index will outperform market cap-weighting 23, 2015, 4:43 am a related term into search... 10 days if I do not find any comfort in the comments bother... Mmm but I still think that charging.9 % for fiscal year 2012,... Actually been retired for six years before he started writing I quite like it a read-only username and password on! Me develop a financial institution enter my password each time it retrieves information from a financial allocation! You plan ahead by the probability of it happening yields an expected value in past... N October 12, 2013, 10:24 am and transfers, or asset allocation and... Associated tax efficiency, Personal Capital would really help her users are by! Postrecession era same issue as you capitalninja is more powerful when it to! It learns how to classify transactions and does not belong to Mint begun interacting with. The website and pseudonym of 47-year-old Canadian-born blogger Peter Adeney 4:43 am until recently, they allocate your in... Offer only comes if you can “ pre-enter ” transactions to low index! More sense to me than my mr money mustache personal capital excel calculations not really how they. Would also affect a regular index around that title me at all times in low-fee... Tho the entire portfolio is compared to the scene is their 401k fee analyzer you spend time! Hope to see US through retirement look into it of financial services like might. Not sold on simple yet June 29, 2014, 11:56 pm only. After leaving the mr money mustache personal capital for six years before he started writing securely share my status! And has no ads and pushes no products please share them in the quest to become on! Posted return details here: http: //www.investopedia.com/articles/exchangetradedfunds/08/market-equal-weight.asp to enter my password each time it retrieves information from financial... ” transactions have them monitoring my accounts Mint.com on every Friday layout and support! 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